Magic. Mysticism and Martial Art nonsense

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Quadsquat
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Magic. Mysticism and Martial Art nonsense

Post by Quadsquat » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:24 pm

My fascination with combat over the years has lead me to many a martial arts book but as reality started to dawn (before MMA blew the combat sports wide open ), i started my cynical review of self -defense literature

One of my favorites is :

Attack Proof “ by John Perkins, Al Ridenhour and Matt Kovsky

The book has of course an approach to various typical self defense situations BUT what i really enjoy is the real life stories of combat , here are a few brief summaries:

1. A small homeless woman was found lying on the ground by 2 police officers , during the attempt to get her to a mental hospital she beat the cr-p out of the officers ,two large hospital orderlies and just became enraged when a 100kg black belt officer hit her with a full power stomach punch . An iron hospital bed was eventually used to subdue her

2. A “master “ of soft style Kung Fu asked an Untrained camera man to “mock attack” him so he could demonstrate his skills…result? An embarrassing mess where the “master” battled to subdue the untrained attacker . Why was this? Obviously the attacker , without training did not cooperate !! he did no square up as expected and execute the EXPECTED attack sequence !!!!!!

3. Another “master” of knife fighting considered himself “overqualified “ for a basic weapons defense course, so the course instructors asked an untrained 5 ‘ 2” woman to attack him (they used rubber knives) BUT to imagine she was a native Indian woman protecting her family. What happened ? She ran at the “master” and slid through his legs and stabbed at his groin repeatedly . He , completely stunned , attempted a knife response which she easily blocked. He then fell over …she climbed on top of him and stashed the knife at his throat. in short he was DEAD

A couple of other realities Ive come across

do you believe that a boxer would be lethal in a real fight?

Think again ……why do you think GLOVES were introduced to boxing ? Do you think it was to protect the face and body of the person being punched (as I always did) ?

NO!!! They are there to protect the HANDS of the puncher. The bare knuckle guys had to be a LOT more careful of where and how hard they punched ……WHY?

Because the bones in their hands would break up

I other words the fists are NOT an effective self defense tool (at least for us average guys)

when gloves were introduced they turned fighters into potential Killers because with their hands protected they were now able to POUND their opponent senseless and of course cause brain damage

How about hand guns ?

the ultimate defense weapon right?

not exactly…….. if your attacker is with a 10 meter range he can close the gap in less time than it will take a highly trained combat pistol practitioner to draw and load , aim and fire his (or her) weapon …something like 1,8 seconds

that is a very sobering fact

Just some of the little gems available out there in the more respectable self defense literature

lets be honest the Martial Arts field is riddled with untruths

last point that comes to mind..... MMA , the so called ultimate fighting art ….well there are no less than 37 attacks that are NOT ALLOWED

more than likely within those 37 are the moves that would save your life in the real world

sport is sport ….real life combat is something entirely different

Liam

Talbot
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Re: Magic. Mysticism and Martial Art nonsense

Post by Talbot » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:18 pm

MMA really means: Mistaken for Martial Arts! The gloves they use negate any effectiveness of training, to use a tight hard fist, as it impossible to get that with those gloves on, and broken hands are quite common in MMA, because of those stupid gloves. And "ground game" is laughable. In real world fighting, street fights, bar fights, criminal attacks, the last place you want to be is on the ground. Not from you taking down your opponent, nor from your opponent taking you down. If you want to be real world proficient in Martial Arts, absolutely avoid any kind of MMA ring fighting training.

There is nothing Magical, nor Mystical, about real Martial Arts. That's just movie and TV nonsense. The quest for things such as "Chi" and "Prana," are purely material, and anyone believing that there is some spiritual, or religious, path to them, will be sorely disappointed. Most of the Asian schools of Martial Arts are secret societies, and have always been so. Outsiders are not given much useful information, just basic stuff. For instance, Yoga was originally a Martial Arts training for warriors, to develop strength for battle. Today what is taught as Yoga is mostly silly nonsense, that "spiritual" people play with, and are clueless about Yoga's materialist Martial Arts origins.

So many people are willing to pay good money to "learn" what amounts to spiritual nonsense, that the "teachers" make good livings at it, so why should they screw that up, by confusing anyone with facts? You know most of the "training" in Martial Arts today, is bogus, when you see a class full of 12 year old "black belts!" People want to "know" the secret "moves" to defeat an opponent, but where is the strength training, (particularly of tendons and ligaments), that is needed to make those "moves" effective?

In Martial Arts today, the student needs to become his own teacher, do his own research, and find his own answers.

sticksb
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Re: Magic. Mysticism and Martial Art nonsense

Post by sticksb » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:50 pm

Corporatists market the mysticism . Opiate of the masses .Spirituality by the ounce
and Trumped up organizations (pun intended ) . Live it , learn it , and teach it don't
preach it . Peace .

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David Gentle
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Re: Magic. Mysticism and Martial Art nonsense

Post by David Gentle » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:45 pm

Do know what guys, those letters from Quadsquat and Talbot are two of the most realistic on "Mysterious Martial Arts" i have read lately, although Geof Thompson had a similar view. In my varied "career" i not only played guitar at the pubs in Southampton,but was also the chuck out guy. I have had guys hit me on the head with bottles, rocks, chairs etc when i used to be stupid enough to say "come outside" and turned my back, so lesson soon learned. some karate "expert came at me with all the hand waving stuff and two blows, one with the PALM of my hand, and a kick in the nuts, soon stopped his little exibition. one guy went to glass me and ended up almost slicing his own thumb off, of course i was sympathetic and helped him out with a little sleep. Yes people think gloves are softer,but actually you can hit harder with gloves, whereas bare fists will hurt your own knuckles ,best of all is to use the palm, Peter our real expert would explain this. mainly i found if i played calmer music most of the so called toughs would eff off to another pub to my relief. I now of course just talk my way out of trouble, although it doesnt work with the wife, who punishes me with that bloody lawn mower. David Gente, ,Peace Brother.
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Re: Magic. Mysticism and Martial Art nonsense

Post by David Gentle » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:00 pm

re my last post about gloves,as i said, gloves can be more dangerous than bare fists because as said earlier the knuckles are protected so you can hit harder. bare fists, hurt when you hit someone too hard or in the wrong place,several of my knuckles still give me hell on a cold winters night. but if you hit with the palm of your hand, then you do not damage your own knuckles, so thats the best way as long as you know your pressure points, the side of the jaw usually does the trick. One old boxer told me, never hit the same place twice, ie. you can hit someone on the jaw and knock them out, but if you hit again in the same place,it will bring them back again. I think Peter said it, if you are going around slogging people, then you should do your martial art homework and learn the art of the revival points. again best of all avoid trouble, or do as i did, music sooths the savage beast, play them a lulaby. David GentleTo add some balance to all this tough guy stuff, i have been mugged twice in london and once in Egypt with knives held to my eyes or stomach, on all occasions i just gave the muggers all the change i had in my pockets (I hide the big notes) and walked away its not worth getting hurt seriously for a few bucks. David Gentle
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sticksb
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Re: Magic. Mysticism and Martial Art nonsense

Post by sticksb » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:15 pm

Traditional Karate/Judo studios , boxing clubs , HS wrestling , all inclusive
weight (lifting) training was all about initial conditioning and flexibility . My
old FB coach Carl Bjork , one of the first sports coaches to institute a
strength training program in HS football in NY , stated " if you take away
nothing else from this season you'll at least know how to keep in shape for
the rest of your life ". Carl turned 90 this year and still lifts and plays basketball.

peter yates
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Re: Magic. Mysticism and Martial Art nonsense

Post by peter yates » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:43 pm

sticksb wrote:Traditional Karate/Judo studios , boxing clubs , HS wrestling , all inclusive
weight (lifting) training was all about initial conditioning and flexibility . My
old FB coach Carl Bjork , one of the fist sports coaches to institute a
strength training program in HS football in NY , stated " if you take away
nothing else from this season you'll at least know how to keep in shape for
the rest of your life ". Carl turned 90 this year and still lifts and plays basketball.
Hi Chris, could you introduce Carl in octogenarian update, he certainly deserves a place there.
Regards,Peter.
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Re: Magic. Mysticism and Martial Art nonsense

Post by peter yates » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:11 pm

I feel that i was very lucky initially getting my first experience of self preservation battling the bullies who tried to terrorize my life as a kid. After taking a few beatings i reasoned that if i fought back i might still get a beating but at least i would have the satisfaction of maybe getting a punch or two in. Well seems like most bullies do not like to get hit themselves and that gave me a lot of confidence as i knew i could take a beating and still keep going. Having no formal training was a help not an hindrance as i did not know what i was "supposed" to do everything was natural. When i began my formal training with Maurice after having done some boxing and wrestling i was again blessed to be taught by someone who really understood principles of combat from personal experience. Now before i was able to study combat with him i had to do two years of weights and specific conditioning exercises to prepare my body for the type of training i would undergo. This was always part of traditional training but left out mostly in the west. Right from the get go Maurice explained that learning techniques was useless without understanding principles,but if you understood principles technique would develop naturally from them. This was echoed later by the real deal fighters i would meet on my travels. Another thing Maurice emphasized was always expect the unexpected, as attacks will always come when we least expect them and from any angle. As i have mentioned before martial arts as with yoga and other eastern disciplines became fragmented when coming to the west so that much of what is taught is for the main part useless for self preservation.
However let's look at this another way, what value do martial arts classes in the west have? Well that would all depend on the organization and instructor[s]. By that i mean there are some really genuine dedicated individuals doing their best to teach groups of people what has been passed them as authentically as they can. Others with little skill are just in it for a buck. Let's deal with the former for now, what may be derived from such classes?
commitment
focus
coordination
spacial awareness
endurance
improved posture and alignment
self esteem
social interaction
improved concentration
improved fitness level
Well that is a decent list that may be possible to attain from a genuine teacher at many schools so not bad reasons for joining and staying with a club or organization.However the problem i have is when students are told that what they are learning will enable them to defend themselves in a serious confrontation. What could be said is that some of the above would help a person's chances to survive but no more than that. The SAS guy i mentioned before told me something that immediately rang true and that was the only way to prepare for combat is with actual combat, but no sense in doing that is there? All we can do is practice in ways that mimic as much as possible scenarios that altercations could occur in.Most of my training has taken place outside in all elements wearing the type of clothing matching the weather. Try some of the fancy dancy techniques from the dojo while bundled up and standing in mud or snow, not going to happen,but they probably would have not worked anyway. How do you act when in a narrow alley, on a stairwell, in a darkened place. This is how you need to train because that is were something is going to happen. As mentioned before the mind is the most powerful weapon, that and understanding principles and not being bound by technique. This reminds me of a time i was in a school in Japan and did some move that sent my opponent flying across the room, i was admonished because what i had done was not taught in that style. Big mistake for them,i did not go back. As far as using fists are concerned i was taught "hard weapon soft target,soft weapon hard target." So use the fist to strike the throat, epigastrium, abdomen, groin and kidney area, use open palm for face, sternum,ribs and other hard surfaces. Interesting but you rarely see anyone teaching open hand slaps which can do a lot damage especially with conditioned hands.My take on things is do not discount training at a martial arts school entirely as some fundamental benefits as discussed above are to be gained, however if self preservation is the goal, read as much as you can by those that have been there and get a small group of like minded people to practice with and try things out to see what may work or not. We have tried many types of training over the years including wearing blindfolds and being attacked, being attacked by two or three at once, training to near exhaustion then having one or more who are fresh attack. Getting drunk then being attacked, you get the picture. Some things to bear in mind also are that everyday i see potential targets everywhere i go, first rule of self preservation is be aware of your environment.Look around and you see people listening to music, talking on the phone, texting or checking their email, totally oblivious to what is going on around them. People with hands in pockets on cold days, no wear gloves and have your hands where you can use them if needed. So much more i could say but i have rambled on as usual and do not blame anyone if they get fed up before the end. One last thing though and i have mentioned it before, developing our humanity and doing something that will be of benefit to others and the space we live in is the needed balance when developing combat skills and to my mind more important. Also always keep your skills hidden until needed.
Regards,Peter.
Peter Yates

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David Gentle
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Re: Magic. Mysticism and Martial Art nonsense

Post by David Gentle » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:36 pm

Peter, if that is rambling, then ramble on, as every word is from someone who has been there and "got the tee shirt" and lets hope its not one of Sticks. You really should get down and put your hard worn knowledge and sensible common sense, with self defense that works into a real good book to counter attack some of the crap out there. So keep "rambling mate" David Gentle
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