bare knuckled fistfighting.

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bare knuckled fistfighting.

Postby Henk1966 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:14 pm

I,ve been involved in martial arts for a long time now and boxing is a sport you gotta love.I remember the good old days with Muhammed Ali but before him there were obviously very fine boxers as well,Jack Dempsey being one of them.At home I have my own mancave with training gear and ofcourse I have a boxingroutine every other day.I start with 1000 to 3000 hits left and right,either in the air,on a paper target or a bag.For me shortest of distance is of the utmost importance,I work as a bouncer and indoors there is not a lot of space left when the place is full and alas sometimes its neccesary to use my hands either to protect or make a statement.
A while ago I read one oldtime strongman book written by George F Jowett.Now he mentioned that there were boxers who used bryne to toughen their hands,cause in those days there were still bare knuckled boxingmatches instead of gloves like nowadays.I also read about gypsies using gasoline to toughen and harden their hands.Now the chinese use Dit Da Jow to toughen their skin and curing any bruises.
Comments anyone?
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Re: bare knuckled fistfighting.

Postby peter yates » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:43 pm

Hi Henk,
i started out with boxing at a time when there were still some old time boxers and trainers around. They had all used brine to toughen their hands and still recommended it. Even though it harked back to bare knuckle days it was still valuable to have strong and toughed hands while wearing gloves. Quite a few decent boxers had careers cut short due to having "glass hands." My first martial arts teacher who was also an ex boxer did a lot of Makiwara training and would soak his hands in brine afterward. His knuckles were covered with thick dark skin. Now the Chinese have used various types of herbal soaks and liniments for thousands of years and these are far more refined than just the brine. They contain herbs that penetrate the bones making them stronger but supple, toughen the skin without drying it out and healing properties to target bruising and minor injury.As you probably know there is a system known as Iron Palm were the hand is forged into a steel like weapon and becomes several times larger through repeated trauma and healing. The use of herbal soaks is essential to this development as is the correct application of force at each stage.Otherwise permanent damage will occur. Usually only one hand is trained in this manner. Personally i do not think this is a sound practice as the risk of even organ injury is possible without expert guidance and that is not easy to find anymore.All Chinese schools had their own version of Dit da jow and guarded recipe but in truth they were pretty similar, although the one my Sifu made had been passed down in his style for over 1,000 years and is pretty potent and can be used for a wide variety of injuries including broken, bones, bruising, sprains, joint pain etc. As far as strikes are concerned though i have always favored using the open hand as opposed to the fist. Short range striking is an essential skill to develop and requires the ability to generate whole body power. My Sifu in China, Luo Guo Hua was only 120lb but when he hit you it was with his whole weight behind the strike. One last note when i was working doors in Australia there was a group of bouncers from all backgrounds who would get together and exchange ideas. One of these, an Irishman told us one day that he pissed on his hands to keep the skin from breaking!Keep up the good training.
Regards,Peter.
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Re: bare knuckled fistfighting.

Postby Henk1966 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:32 pm

Goodevening Peter,

interesting stuff,nice to hear from someone who is well informed.Thanks for the info!!

Regards,

Henk
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Re: bare knuckled fistfighting.

Postby DannyBoy » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:30 am

Henk1966 wrote:I,ve been involved in martial arts for a long time now and boxing is a sport you gotta love.I remember the good old days with Muhammed Ali but before him there were obviously very fine boxers as well,Jack Dempsey being one of them.At home I have my own mancave with training gear and ofcourse I have a boxingroutine every other day.I start with 1000 to 3000 hits left and right,either in the air,on a paper target or a bag.For me shortest of distance is of the utmost importance,I work as a bouncer and indoors there is not a lot of space left when the place is full and alas sometimes its neccesary to use my hands either to protect or make a statement.
A while ago I read one oldtime strongman book written by George F Jowett.Now he mentioned that there were boxers who used bryne to toughen their hands,cause in those days there were still bare knuckled boxingmatches instead of gloves like nowadays.I also read about gypsies using gasoline to toughen and harden their hands.Now the chinese use Dit Da Jow to toughen their skin and curing any bruises.
Comments anyone?

Hey Henk, I don't know about there in the Netherlands, but bare knuckle boxing is still alive & well in some places today. It's still pretty popular around the UK and Ireland, where of course it's a tradition among the gypsies/travellers, but there's also a thriving underground bare knuckle boxing scene there. There's still bare knuckle boxing here in the US as well, usually done illegally outside the confines of state athletic commissions, but Native American tribes have the power to sanction bare knuckle fights on their land. There's a Bare Knuckle Boxing Hall of Fame in Belfast, New York which recognizes both a Bare Knuckle Boxing World Champion and American Champion. Bobby Gunn is the current World Champion and Danny Batchelder the American Champion. Here's a link to the BKB HoF is you're interested: http://www.bareknuckleboxinghalloffame.com/index.html

There was actually a big development in the world of bare knuckle fighting here in the US recently; there's a new promotion called Bare Knuckle Fighting Championship which actually got the state of Wyoming to sanction bare knuckle fighting. Bare Knuckle FC will be hold their first event on June 2nd in Cheyenne, Wyoming, which will be completely legal & regulated. The card will feature veterans of boxing & MMA fighting in bare knuckle matches, including Bare Knuckle Boxing World Champion Bobby Gunn. There's going to be an 8-man heavyweight tournament, the quarterfinals of which will be held at this first event. I don't know what the coverage will be like outside of the US, but here in the US it'll be shown on pay-per-view for $29.99.

Here's the Bare Knuckle FC's official website: https://www.bareknuckle.tv/
And here's a link to an article about the promotion & event if you're interested: Bare Knuckle FC announces historic, legally sanctioned card in Wyoming - MMA Fighting
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Re: bare knuckled fistfighting.

Postby DannyBoy » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:32 am

peter yates wrote:Hi Henk,
i started out with boxing at a time when there were still some old time boxers and trainers around. They had all used brine to toughen their hands and still recommended it. Even though it harked back to bare knuckle days it was still valuable to have strong and toughed hands while wearing gloves. Quite a few decent boxers had careers cut short due to having "glass hands." My first martial arts teacher who was also an ex boxer did a lot of Makiwara training and would soak his hands in brine afterward. His knuckles were covered with thick dark skin. Now the Chinese have used various types of herbal soaks and liniments for thousands of years and these are far more refined than just the brine. They contain herbs that penetrate the bones making them stronger but supple, toughen the skin without drying it out and healing properties to target bruising and minor injury.As you probably know there is a system known as Iron Palm were the hand is forged into a steel like weapon and becomes several times larger through repeated trauma and healing. The use of herbal soaks is essential to this development as is the correct application of force at each stage.Otherwise permanent damage will occur. Usually only one hand is trained in this manner. Personally i do not think this is a sound practice as the risk of even organ injury is possible without expert guidance and that is not easy to find anymore.All Chinese schools had their own version of Dit da jow and guarded recipe but in truth they were pretty similar, although the one my Sifu made had been passed down in his style for over 1,000 years and is pretty potent and can be used for a wide variety of injuries including broken, bones, bruising, sprains, joint pain etc. As far as strikes are concerned though i have always favored using the open hand as opposed to the fist. Short range striking is an essential skill to develop and requires the ability to generate whole body power. My Sifu in China, Luo Guo Hua was only 120lb but when he hit you it was with his whole weight behind the strike. One last note when i was working doors in Australia there was a group of bouncers from all backgrounds who would get together and exchange ideas. One of these, an Irishman told us one day that he pissed on his hands to keep the skin from breaking!Keep up the good training.
Regards,Peter.

This is an excellent & interesting post, Peter! Thanks for the insight! :)
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Re: bare knuckled fistfighting.

Postby Henk1966 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:33 am

Thanks for the info Dannyboy!!

Didn,t know but great that it is somuch alive today!!

Regards,

Henk
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Re: bare knuckled fistfighting.

Postby peter yates » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:12 pm

Hi Danny,
thanks for the terrific information regarding bare knuckle fighting.I knew of the underground scene and in the 70s in Australia had links to that and also in Japan. I did not however know how popular and widespread it had become and even so far as legalization. Interestingly it has been my experience that those trained solely in conventional boxing did not always fair well in bare knuckle contests, there is a real difference fighting with and without gloves. Also much laxer rules were in the favor of those not brought up following ring rules. Also interesting, is that when bare knuckle was cleaned up originally it changed into something else entirely, and so only survived underground as you stated among travelers and bouncers etc. So the thing is now it is becoming legalized will it not once again become a different animal? Of course the wearing of gloves was a big reason for the transformation but from what i observed there was something exciting for crowd and fighters to be fighting and betting outside the law.
Regards,Peter.
PS hey Danny maybe this topic should be in the Martial section, is there a way to transfer it there?
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Re: bare knuckled fistfighting.

Postby DannyBoy » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:21 am

peter yates wrote:Hi Danny,
thanks for the terrific information regarding bare knuckle fighting.I knew of the underground scene and in the 70s in Australia had links to that and also in Japan. I did not however know how popular and widespread it had become and even so far as legalization. Interestingly it has been my experience that those trained solely in conventional boxing did not always fair well in bare knuckle contests, there is a real difference fighting with and without gloves. Also much laxer rules were in the favor of those not brought up following ring rules. Also interesting, is that when bare knuckle was cleaned up originally it changed into something else entirely, and so only survived underground as you stated among travelers and bouncers etc. So the thing is now it is becoming legalized will it not once again become a different animal? Of course the wearing of gloves was a big reason for the transformation but from what i observed there was something exciting for crowd and fighters to be fighting and betting outside the law.
Regards,Peter.

No problem, Peter. The promoter of Bareknuckle FC went to 27 other athletic commissions to get bare knuckle fighting sanctioned & was turned down before Wyoming's commission agreed to sanction the event. Hopefully if Bare Knuckle FC's first event in June is a success and everyone involved gives a good account of themselves & bare knuckle fighting, then perhaps other state athletic commissions will be more open to sanctioning such events in the future. I wish the promotion the best and hope to see it succeed.

peter yates wrote:PS hey Danny maybe this topic should be in the Martial section, is there a way to transfer it there?

Done. :)
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Re: bare knuckled fistfighting.

Postby sticksb » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:47 am

Since many states have open carry and stand your ground laws, let's have quick draw gun fights .
Of course this is nonsense and as much nonsense as santioning bare knuckle street fights .Locally
Syracuse recently had 2 deaths associated with "underground fight clubs ", nice huh so let's have
some more ??? This thread is titled "martial arts" . Excuse me while I take a dip in the septic tank .
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Re: bare knuckled fistfighting.

Postby Talbot » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:33 am

Must agree with sticksb here. Martial Arts are about self defense, and fitness, not gratuitous violence, for "entertainment" purposes.
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