Question of the Week - Sleep

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Question of the Week - Sleep

Post by drob357 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:00 pm

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WHAT ARE YOUR SLEEP HABITS?

In 2015, the National Sleep Foundation issued new recommendations for sleep durations based on age categories to “help individuals make sleep schedules that are within a healthy range”. Here is a small sampling from their website.

• Younger adults (18-25): Sleep range is 7-9 hours (new age category)
• Adults (26-64): Sleep range did not change and remains 7-9 hours
• Older adults (65+): Sleep range is 7-8 hours (new age category)

To view the entire table of the National Sleep Foundation’s Sleep Duration Recommendations visit https://sleepfoundation.org/press-relea ... s/page/0/1 You will find find some interesting data for sleep durations that may be appropriate and those that are not recommended to maintain health and well-being.

I recall many years ago that one of my colleagues at the hospital would often go for 3 or 4 days with almost no sleep, not by choice but because she had chronic insomnia since she was a child. She was still able to function and perform her duties but by 2:30 in the afternoon she began to feel lethargic and struggled to finish her day at work.
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Harry Hayfield
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Re: Question of the Week - Sleep

Post by Harry Hayfield » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:31 pm

I am always in bed by midnight and have my alarm set for 8.30am. There will however be one major exception to this and that will be on local election day. Voting is held during the day and the count starts immediately the polls close (10.00pm). In 2012, that meant having to stay awake until at least 4.30am, however the problem with that was I could barely think straight and trying to tally numbers like a local election when you are in that state is very difficult, therefore I am planning on having as much of a sleep as possible from 2.00pm to 9.00pm so that I can be wide awake at the count (but am unsure about how that might affect my normal sleep)
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Re: Question of the Week - Sleep

Post by DannyBoy » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:59 pm

I usually like to get around 8 hours of sleep when I go to bed, but when I go to bed varies as my sleep schedule can be quite erratic, at least these days. From time to time I'll also have a period of a few days where I'll only sleep 2/3/4 hours at a time, which I never like because I constantly feel tired & sluggish.

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Re: Question of the Week - Sleep

Post by Talbot » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:12 am

I have trained myself to sleep four hours per night. That and a couple of 20 to 30 minutes of nap times during the day. That being the habit of the most effective and successful people in history.

Paleolithic Man did not have the luxury of eight hours of uninterrupted sleep. He was at risk 24/7. Regardless of what has happened during the last 10 or 12 thousands years, biologically we are Paleolithic Man.

During the first four hours of "normal" sleep, the body rebuild itself, then, in the rapid eye state of sleep in the second four hours of "normal" sleep, it breaks down everything it built up in the first four hours of sleep. It makes no sense. It is probably a neurotic reaction, to the safe sleep time that we are granted with, in the modern world, but not understandable to the subconscious mind, that tries to wake us up, and our neurotic response is the rapid eye sleep state, mimicking awakeness, and danger, because, even though there was no threat, the subconscious mind doesn't understand that we can sleep 8 hours uninterrupted, safely.

Vince Gironda had his trainees wake up in the middle of the night for a protein feed. It worked, though it may have been aided by stopping the destructive part of sleep.

As with all things human, sleep must be studied, to determine its usefulness. So far, all we get is the agreed upon drivel, that we need the 8 hours per day, or we won't be healthy, but most likely that's not true!

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Re: Question of the Week - Sleep

Post by sticksb » Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:31 am

Sleeping longer then 4-5 hours for me leads more to fatigue . Old habit from my manufacturing days
up at 4:00 am and in the paint/machine shop by 5:15 . When I'd go on a road trip with college age
friends who never regularly worked I'd be up regardless of how late the mayhem and was almost
never tired . No pre workout catnap , no sleeping in on Sat/Sun . I got stuck with most of the long
distance driving duties during spring break to pay me back for making a racket before 11:00am.
Lazy bastards ...

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Re: Question of the Week - Sleep

Post by Mobster » Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:05 am

Talbot wrote:I have trained myself to sleep four hours per night. That and a couple of 20 to 30 minutes of nap times during the day. That being the habit of the most effective and successful people in history.

Paleolithic Man did not have the luxury of eight hours of uninterrupted sleep. He was at risk 24/7. Regardless of what has happened during the last 10 or 12 thousands years, biologically we are Paleolithic Man.

During the first four hours of "normal" sleep, the body rebuild itself, then, in the rapid eye state of sleep in the second four hours of "normal" sleep, it breaks down everything it built up in the first four hours of sleep. It makes no sense. It is probably a neurotic reaction, to the safe sleep time that we are granted with, in the modern world, but not understandable to the subconscious mind, that tries to wake us up, and our neurotic response is the rapid eye sleep state, mimicking awakeness, and danger, because, even though there was no threat, the subconscious mind doesn't understand that we can sleep 8 hours uninterrupted, safely.

Vince Gironda had his trainees wake up in the middle of the night for a protein feed. It worked, though it may have been aided by stopping the destructive part of sleep.

As with all things human, sleep must be studied, to determine its usefulness. So far, all we get is the agreed upon drivel, that we need the 8 hours per day, or we won't be healthy, but most likely that's not true!
Talbot, do you consider yourself successful for aping their habits? I also recall reading the same but I also recall reading that this was rarely a lifetime habit they had. Just during their 'peak' periods.

I agree with the primitive man comment (I wouldn't restrict it to the Paleolithic period). There have been two articles recently in which they suggest the idea of a single unbroken sleep period is fairly modern. As recently as 100-150 years ago we'd wake around midnight for a half hour or so.

One issue, as you suggest, is people become obsessed with a number like the 8 hours. If you feel refreshed and it, regardless of whatever it is, doesn't affect anything then it's all good. Be that 4 or ten hours.

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Re: Question of the Week - Sleep

Post by peter yates » Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:06 pm

I wold say the issue would be more about quality of sleep rather than quantity. In my case as i had to get up early to go to work for many years i settled into a 6 hr per night habit. Having done a hard days work then training of some kind i would sleep like a log and wake refreshed. I have never been able to just lie in bed once awake, have to get up, unless it was those times in my life when i was sick then all i wanted to do was sleep.As we are all individuals it is up to each of us to find what is optimum and no survey or research can tell us that.Just like food and training, were quality is again more important than quantity each person must find what is right for them, As in all things there is no one size fits all.
Regards, Peter.
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Re: Question of the Week - Sleep

Post by Talbot » Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:50 pm

Mobster wrote:
Talbot, do you consider yourself successful for aping their habits? I also recall reading the same but I also recall reading that this was rarely a lifetime habit they had. Just during their 'peak' periods.

I agree with the primitive man comment (I wouldn't restrict it to the Paleolithic period). There have been two articles recently in which they suggest the idea of a single unbroken sleep period is fairly modern. As recently as 100-150 years ago we'd wake around midnight for a half hour or so.

One issue, as you suggest, is people become obsessed with a number like the 8 hours. If you feel refreshed and it, regardless of whatever it is, doesn't affect anything then it's all good. Be that 4 or ten hours.
Yes I do. Just having an extra three hours+ per day for reading is a real advantage in my view.

Napoleon was known as a night owl. He'd get up during the wee hours of the morning, and review his maps and strategies.

Benjamin Franklin would have two beds to sleep in each night. He would go to bed early, wake up about midnight, pursue his reading and writing for awhile, then go to bed, in a fresh bed.

As I said about Vince Gironda, waking up before the body breaks down, everything that it built up during the first four hours of sleep, prevents that break down period. And, getting up after four hours of sleep, then after awhile going back to sleep, might be responsible for resetting your sleep schedule again, and going through the rebuilding the body part of sleep once more, instead of slipping into the breakdown of the body, seen in extended sleep periods.

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Re: Question of the Week - Sleep

Post by Mobster » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:35 pm

I'm aware of the trick regarding the night time protein shakes. It's one of the reasons for supplement companies suggesting Casein as a slow release protein. Heck my own supplement company sold it. However, the idea that we 'breakdown' (aka Catabolism) is exaggerated. If it was in anyway meaningful the human race would be screwed.

So many supplement studies take an idea in isolation and all too often use a fasted state to measure responses and that's in human studies never mind rat or mice. I see these questions asked all the time. The meal you had last night is as important as the one you have when you wake. It has to be or else you'd wake starving (and I don't mean mildly hungry). Equally, our ability to function on rising suggests stored energy etc.

All that said we're not talking need here as opposed to some supposed ideal. I've a book by Jason Rickaby (True Natural) in which the ides is taken to its extreme. From early meals through to pre-workout foods and, as above, night time snacks. A company, SiS, used to produce a 'protein nocte' (night protein) but any slow digesting meal can take as long as 6 hours. And, as per the GI, mixing foods affects their GI.

When I've been asked on this subject I usually suggest that all these ideals work, if at all, in a very small way. So it's going to be a long term benefit, if it is, rather than something you'll see a quick result from. All that and some of the biggest and strongest athletes we know don't need to get up at 3am...

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Re: Question of the Week - Sleep

Post by Talbot » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:53 pm

Mobster wrote:I'm aware of the trick regarding the night time protein shakes. It's one of the reasons for supplement companies suggesting Casein as a slow release protein. Heck my own supplement company sold it. However, the idea that we 'breakdown' (aka Catabolism) is exaggerated. If it was in anyway meaningful the human race would be screwed.
All that and some of the biggest and strongest athletes we know don't need to get up at 3am...
Casein is not a slow release protein. Anything you eat, goes through the the digestive system, first in, first out. Casein is just impossible for adults to digest, hence the moniker Fart Powder.

Eight hour sleep Catabolism is not exaggerated at all. It is very well documented, though not given any useful explanation, as to why it is so. My contention is the the human race has been screw by it! And only the enlightened individuals can combat it, by changing their sleep patterns.

All of the biggest, strongest athletes that we know, are using PEDs. And, for the most part, they are has beens by age 30. Not exactly a Physical Cultural model.

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