Question of the Week - Sleep

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Mobster
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Re: Question of the Week - Sleep

Post by Mobster » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:40 pm

Casein vs whey vs viscous fluid. Some contradiction here and probably as I said above based on fasted studies etc. One remark suggests whey, in a shake, so a viscous fluid takes 1.5 hours typically. Casein, on the other hand (with the issue you mention lol) takes up to 7 hours. Steak takes 24-72 hours (according to one link). If certain foods were 'impossible to digest' they'd come out as they went in. You'd literally shit out casein as a milk pooy mix. You don't. Most food takes 24-48 hours to go from ingestion to excretion (again as long as 72 hours on one site). Bowl transit tests have varied from extremes of 5 minutes (usually after parts of the gut have been removed) and as long as 3 WEEKS!! Obviously, I'm well aware of the difficulty most adults with milk proteins (either as a lactose intolerance or a dairy intolerance).

Feel free to reference any science on the 8 hour catabolism. The human race cannot be 'screwed' by it else we'd be dead and not posting on a forum. Even the 8 hour thing is a very specific number. Average maybe but I'm reminded a little too much of the whole 7 minute ab workout skit from Planes, Trains and Automobiles. Do we lose weight when we sleep? Sure. Mostly water and then via sweat or exhalation. Temperature dependent. http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/berardi16.htm refers to us being a little more catabolic than anabolic during sleep. But in a meaningful way? By how much??

What happens when we sleep has, as you say, been well studied. Bodybuilders are notorious for over thinking some aspects of what we do. Again, basic human biology means we have adapted so as to not become ill by having a lay in or a longer than 8m hour snooze. Even the MILD effects are negated by input of food during the day, our training and so on. Think about how long our race has survived and even how long a primitive hunter might have to go without and then recover once he ate.

There have been big athletes well before PED had been invented (Louis Cyr). In the time we lok at when we're looking at Iron Game History (apart from the ancient stuff) we're really only looking back 100-150 years at the most and while most of the 'stars' during that time were small (middleweights at best) some were BIG (250-300lbs). That info we have on IGH does not suggest night time meals as a way they got big. Cyr and others ate big (renowned trenchemen - or guys that ate big meals for bets). I also personally know many very large strength athletes and most were on the large side before they touched any PED. Terry Hollands was 17st when he left school. Laurence Shahlaei was 140-kilos (22st) when he left school (a very soft / fat 22st).

Mobster
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Re: Question of the Week - Sleep

Post by Mobster » Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:41 am

Quick addendum: Regarding Vince Girnoda. He was, I am sure, dealing with what we now call hard gainers. Normally most aren't. They just don't eat as much as they think they do and when they do it's often more poorly than they think. However, a few do exist. Vince also dealt with more than a few would-be Hollywood Stars who needed to get into shape and by tomorrow. So, with the macros adjusted, he had (as you say) them wake at silly o'clock and neck protein drinks or eat protein rich meals. By adding a meal in this way regardless of how full they might feel at supper time ('I just can't eat another mouthful Vince') and with hours until breakfast they had time to have it digest and or 'go down'.

Now we can argue the science and indeed some so-called competition prep or diet gurus even use the phrase 're-setting the metabolism' (as if that were possible) but it's little more than more calories of the right kind at a good time. Going back to the 8 hour sleep rule (rubbish as we agree - average at best) we also know that 3 meals a day is the same sort of rule. And once we allow it to become so we are, in many cases, limiting ourselves without an actual need to.

sticksb
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Re: Question of the Week - Sleep

Post by sticksb » Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:09 am

Gironda had an acting cliental when he headquartered @ Studio City . Their schedules , because of
various shoots , were wacky anyway . He had to noticeably muscle up people in 3-4 weeks and make
legit looking bad asses out of them .He had to be successful given the list of Hollywood stars and studios
that constantly funneled people to him for that purpose over many years .
Publically he and Arthur Jones thought each others methods were BS . Behind the scenes Vinny and
Arthur were in close contact constantly on training methods and equipment . Would have liked to be a fly
on the wall during those phone calls with those two cranky old coots going at it ."You're full of S#!T" Vince !!!
'Call you tomorrow"...

Mobster
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Re: Question of the Week - Sleep

Post by Mobster » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:17 am

Even now much is made of transformations of Hollywood stars. From losing loads of weight as well as muscle put on. Throw in good lighting, make up and computer enhanced effects and anything added looks even better.

If, however, you look into what's done it's not easy. Ignoring the rumors use of PED and GH and you're still looking at 5am workouts and, as per Vince's ideas, middle of the night protein drinks etc. Stars have been reported as training solidly for three months, eating 4-5 times a day and so on. Two good examples were the actor who played Thor and the other who played Superman. On Superman we can include Dave Prowse (and another who I forget the name of) who helped make him look super hero like. Hugh Jackman, of Wolverine fame, trains incredibly hard to get the look he's had.

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DannyBoy
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Re: Question of the Week - Sleep

Post by DannyBoy » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:28 am

Mobster wrote:Even now much is made of transformations of Hollywood stars. From losing loads of weight as well as muscle put on. Throw in good lighting, make up and computer enhanced effects and anything added looks even better.

If, however, you look into what's done it's not easy. Ignoring the rumors use of PED and GH and you're still looking at 5am workouts and, as per Vince's ideas, middle of the night protein drinks etc. Stars have been reported as training solidly for three months, eating 4-5 times a day and so on. Two good examples were the actor who played Thor and the other who played Superman. On Superman we can include Dave Prowse (and another who I forget the name of) who helped make him look super hero like. Hugh Jackman, of Wolverine fame, trains incredibly hard to get the look he's had.
David Prowse did an excellent job in training Christopher Reeve for Superman, he looked fit & strong, but not overly muscular. Reeve looked like Superman in every respect, at least for back in that era. Superman today is a different story....

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