Hey Peter and other guys, thanks for responding so quickly. You've been very helpful!
peter yates wrote:Hi Parkules,
nice to hear from you again and hope your training is going well. First we have to acknowledge that Marvin Eder was not your average guy.Certainly he had childhood illness and from all accounts a lousy diet growing up and did not show much before starting training.However in no time he was lifting huge weights and had a thick build. A couple of years ago he told me that he had very strong tendons and ligaments and these played a big part in his strength. He also had the genetic potential for building muscle mass and to be honest types such as this will succeed with just about any training. It is possible that he had nowhere near reached his potential as he was quite young when he gave up competitive bodybuilding and lifting due to sanctions by the AAU.We have to also keep in mind that this was the real early days of bodybuilding and a lot of training ideas were being tried, kept or discarded.He told me that when he trained with Reg Park they would just use the heaviest weights they could on the basic exercises for as many sets as possible. He said while he and Park were about even in the upper body Park was a bit stronger in the legs at that time.The majority of bodybuilders, including Eder, were what was termed 'power bodybuilders,' meaning they used heavy weights on the basics for most their training and only shifted to 'cutting up,' type training before a contest.There has always been cycling but it was not really planned but more instinctive in those days.That is doing more when feeling strong and backing off when not on form.Also many in those days would take a week off every 6-8 weeks and some would even take the summer off completely. Anyway i have some mags with his routines somewhere and will dig them out and post them.Not sure if he will be at the AOBS this year but hope he is, a very humble man.I know there is a book in the works about him, but not sure when it will be released.
My training has stalled out, but I've learned a lot about building strength in the past year or two. I've tried several approaches and experimented with different types of heavy training, and I've found Doug Hepburn's approach the best. In fact, I've stopped training with his system about 3 months ago, and I must admit I still haven't reached those levels of strength despite training consistently for the last 2.5 months.
As for Eder, no doubt he was a natural strongman. It is interesting to see how they went about their training, though, because even among the naturals, he was one of the best, which might be due to training or some other aspect. He seemed to think it was fusion of heavy training and bodybuilding and chins/dips.
It is interested what you said about periodization, they went more by instinct and taking that week off, then by some kind of planned program like machines.
Years ago there was this site called The American Powerlift Evolution. It was a series of articles from various magazines like Iron Man and Strength and Health that detailed his and other people's training from the 1930's through the 1970's. It was up until about 2009 or so and then disappeared. Someone, forgot who, archived the articles, but when I went to Google search it for you to find the link the only Marty Sanchez that comes up is a golfer.....and that ain't him. LOL!!
My understanding from Marvin's early programs were that they were more like 5-6 days a week with him doing full body three days a week on Monday, Wednesday and Friday and then Olympic lifting on Tuesday and Thursdays. His workouts were hours long. Something happened back in the 1950's that he won't discuss that took him completely away from the limelight and essentially forced him to stop training like he had been and concentrate on his plumbing business.
He was one powerful dude though! If my memory is right he had something like a 500 or 530 bench press back in the day. Another possible location for Marvin Eder articles is here:
https://gregorytaper.com/2013/12/06/the ... dezso-ban/
And, old school training in general here at this site: http://ditillo2.blogspot.com/
Lots of articles in there! In addition, there are articles added nearly every Sunday which are and were written by various authors in the iron game. There's quite a few from John Grimek and all the greats from back in the day. Put on a pot of coffee and prepare to read some truly awesome articles on those sites!
Great! I know about Ditillo blog (and Gregor Taper link is just alphabetized list of articles on Ditillo blog up until last year). In fact, I saw a simple routine on that blog by Gene Mozee, who claimed that Eder told him about it, and I did something similar to a good effect in terms of building muscle. I have some doubt that Eder did it though, because Mozee claimed that Arnold and Farbotnik gave him a routine too, and it looked suspiciously like Eder's. Who knows....
But the other site is fantastic and I didn't know about it! There is a way to find some pages that are deleted, and although I can't see many articles, I found this one there:
http://web.archive.org/web/200310201503 ... Eder2.html
Marvin's training for press (2x per week) would be along these lines:
Seems simple enough, so for fun I did this workout this past evening to get the "feel" for it. Being half as strong, I cut the sets in half, and replaced snatch with deadlift. I must say, it felt pretty good. I wasn't tired, yet the muscles felt challenged. It's very similar to Hepburn's training. Of course, you can't judge by effectiveness without giving it a good month or two at least...
sticksb wrote:Eder had options as he was a gifted tradesman . He probably didn't want to wined up
being one of Hoffman's indentured servants . You literally had to outwit Hoffman to
get paid or supported .
I read a comment somewhere that Hoffman was an antisemite and a racist, and that played a part in the feud and him getting Marvin kicked out....