Sandow Statuette

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Re: Sandow Statuette

Post by David Gentle » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:52 pm

Although I have read it all before, its fun re reading the old write ups on Sandow, measurements and all, that tape he or they used to measure his chest, arms etc, must have been the one i lent the wife to measure my penis....a hum....He didnt "lift a horse" he SUPPORTED a pony, the girls he had in the dumbells he side or bent pressed were skinny kids dressed in volumenous dresses to give the illustion of size and bulk. He, as a former acrobat did do back ward somersaults, but most people give the weight as 2 x 35lbs. see i am doing what i accuse other people of. Re Anderson and the safe, i did mention the word "myth" I loved it when i went to Dave Websters, he had one of Samsons barbells, the one that looked heavy, but actually had hollow bells at the end, withholes in so any sand inside, could slowly drain out to make the once heavy weight light. Even Hoffman used aliminum weights instead of cast iron, and so its goes on, just take a bit of salt when you digest feats of strength and strongmen or ladies even who were not above a bit of cheating when it suited. Amongst this lot, only the Saxons were really honest, often lifting way over what they said or displayed, being too skint to alter the poundage painted on the dumbells. David Gentle, taking holy waters as penance.
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peter yates
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Re: Sandow Statuette

Post by peter yates » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:50 pm

Yes David,
some people may not like that their favorite strongman/strongwoman is challenged on alleged lifts or feats of strength,but the fact is some of them did not do what was claimed. Now the only things we can be sure of are those lifts/feats that were officially recorded and witnessed by peers. Anything other than that without proof of evidence is just hearsay and must be discounted.That is not to say the person was not capable of the feat but without substantiation cannot be classed as fact. Unfortunately some feats are blown out of proportion and gradually become accepted as truth. Sometimes the magazines are to blame for this by printing information sent to them without bothering to verify it.Another writer then repeats what has been in print and bobs your uncle it becomes a fact in most people's eyes.Just as confusing is checking old mags for actual contest reports when different scores for lifters in a contest are printed or different placings for BB contestants. Yes while Willoughby did have some good ideas and was a terrific artist, his views on what someone would be able to do on a certain lift based on what they could do on others did not just hold up. Because we are all designed differently there will be lifts that we can excel in and others that we will be only mediocre in. A deadlift is not a snatch, a bench press is not a clean and jerk.Anyway the point is to try and be as accurate as possible in our reporting and to acknowledge new information when it is uncovered.
Regards,Peter.
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Re: Sandow Statuette

Post by peter yates » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:39 pm

Hi Handson,
many thanks for the newspaper articles about Sandow. Maybe the writer meant his chest was 52" expanded,although i reckon that too would be a big stretch,pardon the pun. The rest of the measurements seem inflated also and that is my point about things being written wrongly, without being checked, leading people to believe them and go on to repeat them. Of course newspaper writers may be forgiven but strength writers should be sure of their facts.The story about how he died is the most common one but again may in fact not be true. As for the cocoa business i read somewhere that the main cocoa/chocolate manufacturers in Britain resented him taking a share of the market so conspired to put him out of that business.Of course this may or may not be true but it is plausible.Once again Handson would you be so kind as to send these gems to Diane to add to the Sandow section in the library.Thanks in advance.
Regards,Peter.
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Re: Sandow Statuette

Post by Handson » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:19 pm

Hi Peter
There was some resentment from one of the competitor cocoa firms & in particular one of them took Sandow to court over his use of the phrase "health & strength" in describing his [Sandow's] cocoa.

It seemed and still seems a somewhat petty case and that was the conclusion of the judiciary.

See the attachments which cover the nub of the allegation and also the conclusion.

If I could work out how to string together text and pictures I could have sent the whole of this particular document and other stuff but HOPC doesn't seem to accept e.g. Word documents which would otherwise do the trick.

As an aside I was reading Dannyboy's article on pugilist Peter Jackson and his submission seems to have found a way of stringing together quite a lengthy article.

In a similar vein I have quite a lot of old stuff on Jem Mace but submitting it piecemeal in lots of disjointed 2 X 0.99 Mb is too daunting.

Regards
Handson
Attachments
Henry Thorne v Sandow High Court Intro.png
Henry Thorne v Sandow High Court Intro.png (854.86 KiB) Viewed 1579 times
Henry Thorne v Sandow Decision.png
Henry Thorne v Sandow Decision.png (293.96 KiB) Viewed 1579 times

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Re: Sandow Statuette

Post by peter yates » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:18 pm

Hi Handson,
thank you again for posting another interesting find.It puts things into perspective and as you say it was a petty case, reminding me of something Joe Weider would do. No worry about the tech stuff, i am a tech caveman and can only accomplish the bare minimum.However if at some point you would like to email the Jem Mace info to me i could weave it into an article.
Regards,Peter.
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Re: Sandow Statuette

Post by Handson » Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:48 pm

Hi Peter

I think I'll have a go at writing up most of the stuff about Jem Mace and some of his contemporaries more or less literatim as much of the essence of the articles gets lost otherwise in paraphrasing.

The quaint jargon of Mace's heyday is almost comedic at times -see attached -where some of the slang is still intelligible whereas some is not ['fancy' is the collective noun for pugilists & 'P.R'. interprets as 'Pugilist's [boxing] Ring' & 'force' are the cops and so on]. As an aside, 140 years on from this article the sentiments of the last sentence don't reflect the situation in London today.

In the bare knuckle days the capers of the fancy vs the force could be farcical as the second attachment shows -I thought the interval between rounds was supposed two be a minute or so!

Regards
Handson
Attachments
June 1879 Language of the Prize Ring.png
June 1879 Language of the Prize Ring.png (740.87 KiB) Viewed 1573 times
4 January 1862 Brettle vs Rooke.png
4 January 1862 Brettle vs Rooke.png (220.2 KiB) Viewed 1573 times

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Re: Sandow Statuette

Post by peter yates » Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:42 pm

Thanks again mate. The reference to 'Kicking up North' put me in mind of something that was still taking place when i was a kid, that was clog fighting. No matter if you worked in a mine,weaving shed, quarry or other hard labor clogs were the footwear of the day. Clog fighting entailed two men facing each while grasping each others shoulders and then taking turns at kicking each others shins.The first to back off was the loser.Often used as way to solve disputes. Not much in the way of sense and refinement were needed and certainly nowhere near the skill the still then local wresting bouts entailed.
Regards,Peter.
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David Gentle
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Re: Sandow Statuette

Post by David Gentle » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:25 pm

Hi Handson, brilliant and fascinating extracts, would love hard copies of them all especially the Sandow stuff.re boxing, i bought a great discs from ebay with about 250 boxing books on including some of the real early ones like Fistiana which gives details of all the early fights, great for reference, as sods law would have it, just been searching for it to give better details, but cant find it. i know i used it for references for articles i wrote for the british wrestlersreunion site. again re boxing, one old guy told me that actually using gloves was more dangerous than bare fists, as with gloves it does not hurt your hands, whereas i used to scrap now and then, well more often than that and broke several knuckles in the past, re the slang, all fighters use their own language , wrestlers in particular use whats called kayfabe so the punters dont know whats going on. are fights fixed, either boxing or wrestling, sadly, yes, if money is involved fixing is likely, then theres the entertainment or exibition matches, only shoot outs or when real pride comes into it do real fights begin and most real fights are over in less than three minutes if that, with me its how quick i can run away.........well is now. David Gentle
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Handson
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Re: Sandow Statuette

Post by Handson » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:58 am

Hi David

Here's one you may recall with fisticuffs stuff on it.

Handson
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Heads Up on HOPC.png
Heads Up on HOPC.png (19.39 KiB) Viewed 1553 times

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Re: Sandow Statuette

Post by Handson » Wed May 01, 2019 3:50 pm

This guy was no slouch of course too.
Newspaper quality photos are a bit fuzzy but there's no doubting the powerful arms.
Handson
Attachments
1928 Herman Gorner at Old Vic.png
1928 Herman Gorner at Old Vic.png (983.01 KiB) Viewed 1492 times
April 1928 Herman Gorner Palace Theatre Aberdeen.png
April 1928 Herman Gorner Palace Theatre Aberdeen.png (775.85 KiB) Viewed 1492 times

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