Eder's training

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Eder's training

Postby Parkules » Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:50 pm

So I came up on this video of Eder and was really impressed by his muscularity. I knew of course of his strength feats and saw his pictures before. I was listening to his radio podcast interview and he said his final training schedule consisted of two weightlifting days and two bodybuilding days (per week) and that he did really well on that. In another interview for a website, he said that his strength was result of the fusion of two types of training.

Do any of you guys know how he trained back in the day in terms of exercises and rep ranges and such as he couldn't really remember even the exercises he did. let alone details...

Did those guys use a form of periodization? It's hard to believe that -with Russian/Eastern European prioritization being all the range in training circles now, the old guys could get so strong simply working in straight forward manner....



youtu.be/A2tniD_FEP4
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Re: Eder's training

Postby peter yates » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:05 pm

Hi Parkules,
nice to hear from you again and hope your training is going well. First we have to acknowledge that Marvin Eder was not your average guy.Certainly he had childhood illness and from all accounts a lousy diet growing up and did not show much before starting training.However in no time he was lifting huge weights and had a thick build. A couple of years ago he told me that he had very strong tendons and ligaments and these played a big part in his strength. He also had the genetic potential for building muscle mass and to be honest types such as this will succeed with just about any training. It is possible that he had nowhere near reached his potential as he was quite young when he gave up competitive bodybuilding and lifting due to sanctions by the AAU.We have to also keep in mind that this was the real early days of bodybuilding and a lot of training ideas were being tried, kept or discarded.He told me that when he trained with Reg Park they would just use the heaviest weights they could on the basic exercises for as many sets as possible. He said while he and Park were about even in the upper body Park was a bit stronger in the legs at that time.The majority of bodybuilders, including Eder, were what was termed 'power bodybuilders,' meaning they used heavy weights on the basics for most their training and only shifted to 'cutting up,' type training before a contest.There has always been cycling but it was not really planned but more instinctive in those days.That is doing more when feeling strong and backing off when not on form.Also many in those days would take a week off every 6-8 weeks and some would even take the summer off completely. Anyway i have some mags with his routines somewhere and will dig them out and post them.Not sure if he will be at the AOBS this year but hope he is, a very humble man.I know there is a book in the works about him, but not sure when it will be released.
Regards,Peter.
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Re: Eder's training

Postby 28kgKB » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:19 pm

Years ago there was this site called The American Powerlift Evolution. It was a series of articles from various magazines like Iron Man and Strength and Health that detailed his and other people's training from the 1930's through the 1970's. It was up until about 2009 or so and then disappeared. Someone, forgot who, archived the articles, but when I went to Google search it for you to find the link the only Marty Sanchez that comes up is a golfer.....and that ain't him. LOL!!

My understanding from Marvin's early programs were that they were more like 5-6 days a week with him doing full body three days a week on Monday, Wednesday and Friday and then Olympic lifting on Tuesday and Thursdays. His workouts were hours long. Something happened back in the 1950's that he won't discuss that took him completely away from the limelight and essentially forced him to stop training like he had been and concentrate on his plumbing business.

He was one powerful dude though! If my memory is right he had something like a 500 or 530 bench press back in the day. Another possible location for Marvin Eder articles is here:

https://gregorytaper.com/2013/12/06/the ... dezso-ban/

And, old school training in general here at this site: http://ditillo2.blogspot.com/

Lots of articles in there! In addition, there are articles added nearly every Sunday which are and were written by various authors in the iron game. There's quite a few from John Grimek and all the greats from back in the day. Put on a pot of coffee and prepare to read some truly awesome articles on those sites!

Cheers,

John
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Re: Eder's training

Postby peter yates » Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:23 pm

Hi John,
Dale Credico's site is a wonderful collection of magazine articles from the past.Certainly a great resource that someone on the site mentions from time to time.Thanks for mentioning it again here. The reason Marvin pulled away from competition was due to him being a victim of the feud between Hoffman and Weider. Marvin appeared in some adverts in the Weider mags and Hoffman, who held quite a bit of power in AAU in those days, proposed that Marvin was a professional and should be barred from competing. The paradox is that Grimek,Stanko, Bacon, Terpak and a host of other lifter/bodybuilders worked for Hoffman and this fact was conveniently overlooked. In a way Hoffman spited himself because although not a good lifting technician Marvin was fabulously strong and had no way reached his potential. With the right coaching he could have been a national champion and world class lifter, which would have benefited Hoffman. Marvin told me that he really would have liked to have represented his country in lifting. Anyway he went on educated himself and became a successful businessman, raised a family and continued training for his own pleasure.
Regards,Peter.
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Re: Eder's training

Postby sticksb » Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:38 pm

Eder had options as he was a gifted tradesman . He probably didn't want to wined up
being one of Hoffman's indentured servants . You literally had to outwit Hoffman to
get paid or supported .
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Re: Eder's training

Postby Parkules » Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:27 am

Hey Peter and other guys, thanks for responding so quickly. You've been very helpful!

peter yates wrote:Hi Parkules,
nice to hear from you again and hope your training is going well. First we have to acknowledge that Marvin Eder was not your average guy.Certainly he had childhood illness and from all accounts a lousy diet growing up and did not show much before starting training.However in no time he was lifting huge weights and had a thick build. A couple of years ago he told me that he had very strong tendons and ligaments and these played a big part in his strength. He also had the genetic potential for building muscle mass and to be honest types such as this will succeed with just about any training. It is possible that he had nowhere near reached his potential as he was quite young when he gave up competitive bodybuilding and lifting due to sanctions by the AAU.We have to also keep in mind that this was the real early days of bodybuilding and a lot of training ideas were being tried, kept or discarded.He told me that when he trained with Reg Park they would just use the heaviest weights they could on the basic exercises for as many sets as possible. He said while he and Park were about even in the upper body Park was a bit stronger in the legs at that time.The majority of bodybuilders, including Eder, were what was termed 'power bodybuilders,' meaning they used heavy weights on the basics for most their training and only shifted to 'cutting up,' type training before a contest.There has always been cycling but it was not really planned but more instinctive in those days.That is doing more when feeling strong and backing off when not on form.Also many in those days would take a week off every 6-8 weeks and some would even take the summer off completely. Anyway i have some mags with his routines somewhere and will dig them out and post them.Not sure if he will be at the AOBS this year but hope he is, a very humble man.I know there is a book in the works about him, but not sure when it will be released.
Regards,Peter.



My training has stalled out, but I've learned a lot about building strength in the past year or two. I've tried several approaches and experimented with different types of heavy training, and I've found Doug Hepburn's approach the best. In fact, I've stopped training with his system about 3 months ago, and I must admit I still haven't reached those levels of strength despite training consistently for the last 2.5 months.

As for Eder, no doubt he was a natural strongman. It is interesting to see how they went about their training, though, because even among the naturals, he was one of the best, which might be due to training or some other aspect. He seemed to think it was fusion of heavy training and bodybuilding and chins/dips.

It is interested what you said about periodization, they went more by instinct and taking that week off, then by some kind of planned program like machines.


28kgKB wrote:Years ago there was this site called The American Powerlift Evolution. It was a series of articles from various magazines like Iron Man and Strength and Health that detailed his and other people's training from the 1930's through the 1970's. It was up until about 2009 or so and then disappeared. Someone, forgot who, archived the articles, but when I went to Google search it for you to find the link the only Marty Sanchez that comes up is a golfer.....and that ain't him. LOL!!

My understanding from Marvin's early programs were that they were more like 5-6 days a week with him doing full body three days a week on Monday, Wednesday and Friday and then Olympic lifting on Tuesday and Thursdays. His workouts were hours long. Something happened back in the 1950's that he won't discuss that took him completely away from the limelight and essentially forced him to stop training like he had been and concentrate on his plumbing business.

He was one powerful dude though! If my memory is right he had something like a 500 or 530 bench press back in the day. Another possible location for Marvin Eder articles is here:

https://gregorytaper.com/2013/12/06/the ... dezso-ban/

And, old school training in general here at this site: http://ditillo2.blogspot.com/

Lots of articles in there! In addition, there are articles added nearly every Sunday which are and were written by various authors in the iron game. There's quite a few from John Grimek and all the greats from back in the day. Put on a pot of coffee and prepare to read some truly awesome articles on those sites!

Cheers,

John


Great! I know about Ditillo blog (and Gregor Taper link is just alphabetized list of articles on Ditillo blog up until last year). In fact, I saw a simple routine on that blog by Gene Mozee, who claimed that Eder told him about it, and I did something similar to a good effect in terms of building muscle. I have some doubt that Eder did it though, because Mozee claimed that Arnold and Farbotnik gave him a routine too, and it looked suspiciously like Eder's. Who knows....

But the other site is fantastic and I didn't know about it! There is a way to find some pages that are deleted, and although I can't see many articles, I found this one there:

http://web.archive.org/web/200310201503 ... Eder2.html

Marvin's training for press (2x per week) would be along these lines:
Press 5x3
Dips 8x10
Squats 8x3
Snatch 10x2

Seems simple enough, so for fun I did this workout this past evening to get the "feel" for it. Being half as strong, I cut the sets in half, and replaced snatch with deadlift. I must say, it felt pretty good. I wasn't tired, yet the muscles felt challenged. It's very similar to Hepburn's training. Of course, you can't judge by effectiveness without giving it a good month or two at least...

sticksb wrote:Eder had options as he was a gifted tradesman . He probably didn't want to wined up
being one of Hoffman's indentured servants . You literally had to outwit Hoffman to
get paid or supported .



I read a comment somewhere that Hoffman was an antisemite and a racist, and that played a part in the feud and him getting Marvin kicked out....
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Re: Eder's training

Postby peter yates » Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:42 am

Hi Parkules,
Well Hoffman certainly did not like Joe Weider who was Jewish but i think it was more because Joe was taking business away from him and maybe taking potential lifters into full time bodybuilding. Hoffman was quite possibly racist to some degree but then most of the country was at that time. He had many Jewish acquaintances if not actual friends including Sig Klein who had a regular column in his mag. He also set up John Terry in a business and helped John Davis financially and was probably the first to feature a black man on a magazine cover,that person being John Davies. Like many of his time and just the same in this day and age he practiced selective racism. No better or worse than the majority.
Regards,Peter.
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Re: Eder's training

Postby Parkules » Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:53 am

peter yates wrote:Hi Parkules,
Well Hoffman certainly did not like Joe Weider who was Jewish but i think it was more because Joe was taking business away from him and maybe taking potential lifters into full time bodybuilding. Hoffman was quite possibly racist to some degree but then most of the country was at that time. He had many Jewish acquaintances if not actual friends including Sig Klein who had a regular column in his mag. He also set up John Terry in a business and helped John Davis financially and was probably the first to feature a black man on a magazine cover,that person being John Davies. Like many of his time and just the same in this day and age he practiced selective racism. No better or worse than the majority.
Regards,Peter.



Yeah Peter, I think you are probably right. Him featuring John Davies absolves him somewhat. He wasn't exactly hitler. Leroy Colbert claimed that he was the first black man on a magazine cover, of course published by Weider.
I might look into that when I get a chance, it's an interesting tidbit of iron history.
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Re: Eder's training

Postby David Gentle » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:52 pm

I met Marvin Eder at a couple of award cermonies and as is my practice, make the most of it and interviewed him in depth and we became quite friendly. From what i gather he was basically a skilled plumber and made good money in the area he lived. I asked him of course about the Hoffman and Weider wars and he leaned to Weider simply because Joe used him more in his mags. My main interest as i suspect is yours was his training and at that period his bench press was tops amongst the bodybuilders. I asked what he did and where he trained etc. He said he literally went from gym to gym doing parts of workouts almost every day. I asked about taking the gear and he swore he never touched drugs , so i said where do you get your energy,and he said he was just naturally full of energy and loved bodybuilding and unlike some, i actually believe him. I know he trained with Reg Park who put in a tough workout,but Marvin had no problem keeping up or indeed at times overtaking Park. I think Marvin still attends the Oldtimers "do" inNew York and as a real friendly bloke would happily speak to anyone who was lucky enough to attend, such as our own Peter.He sure had some amazing pecs... David Gentle
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Re: Eder's training

Postby peter yates » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:27 pm

Parkules wrote:
peter yates wrote:Hi Parkules,
Well Hoffman certainly did not like Joe Weider who was Jewish but i think it was more because Joe was taking business away from him and maybe taking potential lifters into full time bodybuilding. Hoffman was quite possibly racist to some degree but then most of the country was at that time. He had many Jewish acquaintances if not actual friends including Sig Klein who had a regular column in his mag. He also set up John Terry in a business and helped John Davis financially and was probably the first to feature a black man on a magazine cover,that person being John Davies. Like many of his time and just the same in this day and age he practiced selective racism. No better or worse than the majority.
Regards,Peter.



Yeah Peter, I think you are probably right. Him featuring John Davies absolves him somewhat. He wasn't exactly hitler. Leroy Colbert claimed that he was the first black man on a magazine cover, of course published by Weider.
I might look into that when I get a chance, it's an interesting tidbit of iron history.

Hi Parkules, Davis was on the cover of January 1941 issue of Strength and Health magazine. It was a rear view and he was naked so this on top of his being black caused some people to object and even stop their subscriptions. While i heartily applaud Hoffman for putting Davis on the cover it would probably have been better if he had been wearing trunks as it was probably just too much for some folk. Leroy Colbert was not born until 1933 so would only have been 8 at this time. I am sure though that no other mag featured a Black bodybuilder until Leroy appeared on a Weider cover in the early 1950s and the S&H cover was long forgotten.
Regards,Peter.
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